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SADHANA
Question: How to start sadhana, spiritual practice?
Poonjaji: You should start when you want to reach somewhere.
We must know what the destination is.
Q: My Self.
P: The destination is the
starting point. When our destination is timelessness, to
start is to lose ourselves, to go somewhere else. You always
want to objectify the Self, and then you want to achieve it.
The Self will always remain a possessor, not a
possession.
Q: How to perceive this awareness of the Self?
P: By not allowing any concept to enter in you. All acquired
knowledge comes from outside and you identify yourself with
the acquirement. Give it all back to the source and what is
left cannot be rejected. To remain what you are, you need
not do anything.
UNDERSTANDING
Q: What does the disciple need to understand?
P The explanations I give you may be understood by the mind,
but this is not the real understanding. The real
understanding cannot be heard or understood, or even put in
the mind.
Q: So the real understanding is not to understand the words,
but to understand what they are pointing to?
P: Correct. Now do it!
ABSENCE
OF TRUTH
Q: Is the Truth we search for ever absent at any time?
P: No, otherwise it cannot be Truth.
Q: Is it ever away from you?
P: No. So, to make efforts to attain the Truth means that we
believe in her absence from us. This idea itself is to be
dropped. So what effort shall we make to remain as we ever
are? It is because we make efforts that we cannot 'see'. To
remain effortless is our real nature.
Q: But how to stabilise in it?
P: The idea of stabilisation is a desire to become something
that you are not already now. Which means? If Truth is not
here now, at all times, it cannot be Truth.
DEPENDING
ON GOD ONLY
Q: Now I don't depend on anybody, nor anything in the world,
I depend only on God.
P: To say that now you depend only on God now is an
inaccurate statement of yours. How can you say this when in
fact you depend on your intellect which says this? You are
fooling yourself - you need not change the state of your
mind. To only depend on God means to leave everything,
including your own mind and intellect.
To pray to God means that God is an object; but God is the
subject. As so, the one who prays becomes an object which
dissolves with the prayer. This is the real prayer to God.
Otherwise, the prayer gives strength to the object which
means duality and fear.
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CHOICE
Q: What about the choice of favourable circumstances for
inner work?
P: Don't choose. There are no circumstances for the one who
dives deep. The body is no more his, but belongs to its
destiny. Let it react, since the circumstances are only in
the waking state.
You want to choose, the supreme power is giving you the
strength to choose. Don't be so foolish to think it is 'you'
who choose.
INNER
PRESENCE
Q: Do we need to give ourselves totally to the inner
presence?
P: If you believe this you are accepting that you are on the
outside and that there is something superior to you on the
inside. Give up all these ideas. You are neither outside nor
inside. Your preconceived ideas, such as "I must experience
the inner presence", will give you an experience of an inner
presence, but it will just be a mental experience brought
about by your belief that there is an inner presence that
can be experienced. Give up all ideas such as these and stay
quiet.
EMPTINESS
Q: To abide in emptiness frightens me. Also, it makes me
feel like I am wasting my time.
P: The real emptiness is not frightening. If you experienced
fear or fright, it was not in a state of emptiness. You have
never allowed yourself to experience the emptiness that is
empty of all objects. Reject all known impressions, all
pictures borrowed from the familiar world of your
memory.
'NO-MIND'
Q: Sometimes my mind stops in a place where there is
nothing positive, nothing negative. There is neither joy nor
sadness, but I still feel absorbed and exalted. Is this
'no-mind'? Can the Master bring some light on this?
P: To think there is 'no-mind' is still thinking. Thinking
and not thinking are both normal functions of the mind. But
in your natural being there is 'no-thought'.
Q: Are you saying that 'no-thinking' is also a thought?
P: I have just told you, "Thinking and no thinking are both
normal functions of the mind". A mind that doesn't think
thoughts, which is free of the idea of no thought as well,
can be called a 'free-mind'. 'Thought' and 'no-thought'
exist in relation to each other. They are both properties of
the mind. 'No-mind' is something else. It has no connection
with anything. When the mind is so undressed that it is free
even of 'no-thinking', there will be nothing left of the
mind. While there is the mental state of 'no-thought', there
is still a place where objects can land, but when
'no-thought' is thrown away, leaving only 'no-mind', objects
cannot land anymore. In fact, in that state there are no
objects at all.
ORIGINAL
STATE
Q: What is the 'original state'?
P: When the mind that discriminates disappears, what is left
is the original state. This is what some people call
'prajna' or enlightenment.
DOUBT
Q: What is the main obstacle to enlightenment?
P: Doubt is the only obstacle to enlightenment. If you don't
have any doubt that you are not the body, then you are
enlightened. This is quite enough for enlightenment. Simply
say, 'I am That. I am not the body, I am not the senses, not
even the mind'.
DREAMING
AND REALITY
Q: I can see that the 'dream state' is unreal, but does the
'waking state' contain anything real?
P: There is no difference between dreaming and waking. Even
now you are dreaming. This is also a dream. If it is not a
dream then it must always remain. The Reality doesn't
disappear. What disappears is a dream and a dream is not
true. What does not disappear is the truth. So if you have
seen that 'I am not the body, I am That', then this will not
disappear because this is Reality.
GOD AND
SUFFERING
Q: If God is everywhere, why is there suffering?
P: The divine is that one, that energy which manifests
itself in both good and bad. You are always looking to the
effects of this energy and not to its source.
ABSENCE
OF THE MASTER
Q: What will I do in your absence?
P: Because you saw me coming, you suppose that I will one
day go away. I never come or go.
Q: But you are going away soon.
P: If you know how to create separation in the presence, why
don't you create presence in the separation? If you don't
allow the mind to create a distance, who goes and where does
he go?
DEATH
OF A SELF-REALISED PERSON
Q: What happens when a Self-realised person leaves the
body?
P: There is no such thing as a Self-realised person because
only when there is no person will the Self be realised. When
there is no person there is no question of coming or going!
The person is just a temporary appearance in the unchanging
Self.
MASTER
Q: You are often telling us to 'let go', but it is very
difficult.
P: That's because you have the idea that 'letting go' is
something that you have to do. To move from one place to
another may be difficult if the journey is long and hard.
But if you don't have to move at all, how can you say that
it is difficult? Just give up the idea that you have to do
something or reach somewhere. That's all you have to do.
Q: But if you say, "It is not difficult", then what is the
use of a master? Why do you insist that we need one if it is
such an easy thing to do?
P: You have been conditioned to believe that the rope is a
snake. The master is needed to convince you that the rope is
really a rope. He just tells you about what is true and real
because you insist in believing in what is untrue and
unreal. Once you have found your 'original nature', you do
not need a master anymore.
Q: Who are the true masters in the world today? Can you name
some of them?
P: There is only one true master, and he is unknown. He has
no name, no form and no abode.
Q: Who is your own master?
P: It is the Unknown.
Q: If a seeker leaves you and goes to another spiritual
master, what do you do?
P: Where can he go? Wherever he goes, I am.
Q: For me, Ramana Maharshi is the perfect picture of a Sage.
Just sitting, doing nothing.
P: It is because you are standing that you see him
sitting.
Q: Can the master tell me what is happening when there is a
Guru-disciple transmission? Because it seems paradoxically
that nothing happens.
P: The master gives out the words of truth and the disciple
listens. When there is no thought of result or consequence,
the original state reveals itself to the disciple, who then
functions spontaneously. It just happens by itself.
Excerpts from this article are taken from Nothing
Ever Happened and Papaji Interviews, published by
The Avadhuta Foundation, Boulder, Colorado; The Truth Is
published by Yudhistara (USA); and selections from the
personal diaries of H.W.L Poonja and Mira
Decoux.
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