uestion: The very first time that you met Siddharameshwar Maharaj, at the age of twelve, how did you know that he was your master?

Ranjit Maharaj: I saw him and he conquered me. That's the main point. Since my birth my thoughts have always been on the side of the Gods - Lord Krishna, Rama and other Gods in Hindu mythology.

I was praying with full heart from the age of six. I was very much engrossed in worshipping Lord Krishna with very much devotion. I would go to temples and go on pilgrimages. All my family members were also worshipping along with me. At that time, my health was very weak and I was fasting and doing many, many things. There's one extra month that comes in India, it's called Purshutamath, Lord Krishna's month. During this month I was not speaking, even when I was having my meals. I just want to say that during this period I was doing so many things.

At a certain age I got into an accident. I was walking together with my father and a cart conductor ran over my leg. The bones were broken in three places. It was completely bandaged. Also, at the time my mother was pregnant, so my neighbour took charge of me. She was a very religious minded old lady. In the end, I lived with her for twenty years. And as she was very religious minded, more of these kinds of thoughts came upon me. Her nephew was working in a solicitor's office where the managing clerk was named Mr. Okaria, a man who was in touch with Siddharameshwar Maharaj at that time. Her nephew was of a very different nature because he didn't believed in God. In 1925, he went with Mr. Okaria to Siddharameshwar Maharaj's birthplace (Pathri), just to see what was there. My master's personality was so great that when someone came in contact with him, they could not go away untouched. So, although her nephew was a non-believer in God, still he took the mantra from Siddharameshwar Maharaj. When he returned to Bombay, he said to me, "When Siddharameshwar Maharaj comes to Bombay, I'll take you to him. You must get the mantra." I took his mantra and his bliss. Automatically, it came upon me. Although I was a believer in idol Gods and I was worshipping them just like a fanatical person, the next day I left them. How? I don't know.

Siddharameshwar Maharaj

But when I saw him I forgot Lord Krishna. That is the greatest thing which I saw in him. So, what I want to say is that when I saw him, I felt very natural, I tell you, and I forgot Lord Krishna, bas! (finished)! In all this - nothing remained in me. So, in this way I met my master and by his grace I understood. All honour goes to him and not to me.

Some people ask me, "When we can get this (understand Reality), how will it happen?" It happens if your mind desires It very abruptly. So, since I met him that day, I forgot all the words. I realised that the master is the only person in the world from whom you can get something. His knowledge was so great and simple. He never used big, complicated words and he was a believer that the Vedas - the highest sacred books in India - should be taught to women and children too. He was so sure of his own realisation of Reality and he felt that it was everybody's birthright to understand. Only in a human body can you achieve this. Otherwise, animals and birds for example, have no discrimination power. The power is the same, but the contrivance of discrimination is not there. Only the human body has got the contrivance of discrimination - between good and bad, between what is Reality and what is unreal, between what is illusion and what is God.

Q: When you first met your master, did you reject everything all at once?

RM: Yes. 'Rejected' means - I left what my life was then - worshipping was my life. So I rejected that first. Then, what else is there to reject? After that, nothing needs to be rejected, no? But my family members were against me. My mother was coming to hear him, but still she and my family were against me. I never cared for them. I said to them all, "I don't care for you". I was a very strong minded man, I tell you (laughs).

Q: You have to be, no?

RM: One should be. Unless you become strong minded you can't accept the Reality. It counts upon your death. One side is death and one side is Reality. I accept the death. "You are not going to die because you are the Reality". That much will power, one must have. My family members were very much against me, my brothers and many people. I said, "I don't care for anybody." So, one should have that great understanding. Understanding makes you stronger. Nothing else. If you call a doctor, he will say to you, "I will cure you, don't worry." He then gives you the medicine. You should accept it, no? He has got that understanding. Other doctors say that you will die. So, no, don't worry about it. Have the faith in yourself. If you loose your faith in yourself, then you are lost. You become the smallest creature in the world. What is there (shows with his hand the space between thumb and index finger)? There are so many people in the world, no? What is the meaning of one person? He may be the greatest of the greatest, but what is there? Unless you know that everybody is He (Reality), then you can understand the real greatest of the great. Then everybody is He. People don't understand this. What to do? They don't take it to heart. They say, "What will happen if I do this then?" That doubt always comes in the mind. Mind is always doubtful. So one should not worry about the mind. Throw off your mind, throw off your ego. Have the understanding of Reality in yourself. That was his mission and he gave that mission. Today I dare say to anybody, "Why worry, you are He." There must be some power in your mind, otherwise how could you even say anythiing? Some people may say, "Okay, we'll kill you, because you are He, no?" So, kill me. I say that I never cared for anybody. You have to understand. Discrimination power should be used by yourself. Discrimination of the mind. There, mind helps you. Mind is there to help you to understand Reality, and if you want the Reality, he can do anything for that.

There are so many examples in the Indian mythology about this. There was a devotee of Lord Krishna and some Narana. The word 'Narana' means mind. So some Narana dressed up as a saint and said to a Krishna devotee, "Cut your child up, and while doing so you should not cry. You must sing nice bhajans or nice things during this, and finally you must cook your child." She did it. Her husband was also devoted to Krishna. They cut the boy up - they took him from his school and they cut the boy up. She didn't cry. She then cooked him and gave it to Narana, who was dressed as a saint. Narana said, " You have no child now, you are a barren woman." She was so strong and replied to him, " Forget that! I've had a child in my stomach before and now I am carrying a second child." And then what did Narana say? He had understood - she had the greatest devotion for the Reality. He called that second boy, "Come Raul" - his name was Raul - "Raul come!" He came then. Narana then understood that the boy had never died. Nobody dies. These are the examples given in the mythological books. One should understand that. People say, "How can we do it? We are such a small creature." Why? Have the courage, do anything to achieve the Reality. Nothing else.

If your body goes, let it go! Siddharameshwar Maharaj always said, " I will leave my body, I don't care, but I will achieve the Reality." He was a very strong person. He was going to the gymnasium and at that time he was doing one thousand dundas, (push-ups)! One thousand at a stretch he was doing. He was so strong! But when his master died (Bhausaheb Maharaj), I think, 5 or 6 years after he realised that understanding in the mind, so he said to his co-disciples who were travelling with him, that they should go ahead, go further. He said, "Meditation is not the last point. One should go further ahead." But they said to him, "But our master has not told us that!" He replied, "Let master not say, but can you still not go?" He was so strong in the mind. Then he left their company. They were 3 or 4 co-disciples, and they were moving around, giving that understanding to people. He said, "No, I don't go." At first, for 9 months he sat on one peak, a hillside in Bijapur and he achieved the Reality. Then he left. All this is so miraculous, I tell you. If you have got faith in the master, then everything becomes a miracle I tell you! And he achieved the Reality. To achieve the Reality, one should not care for the body. Don't care for the body. Don't care for the self. Then you can become He. Forget everything, then you can achieve It, why not? One can achieve It. It's very easy to know oneself. What is there? But the problem is that you don't loose the love for the illusion. What to do? That illusion always keeps you attracted. Forget that illusion! When he was still alive he gave that understanding to many people in this way.

All are equal, but it depends upon the acceptor, how much he accepts. Teachers or professors in the school or college, they teach everybody the same thing. The one who has got more caliber or more accepting power, he comes first in the class. So, there is no discrimination with the teaching. All are equal, anybody can come. Siddharameshwar Maharaj never believed in any religion, also. He was giving his own sermons without any distinction, and it was open to anybody, even if they belonged to a religion. He taught in such a nice way.

Q: How exactly did he teach this knowledge to people?

RM: He was giving daily sermons for one hour. He was not going to many places, because he never wanted fame. So, he was coming to Bombay, going to Bijapur, and nearby there is a place called Bagewadi and also in Sholapur. In these four places he was giving his sermon from the books of knowledge. In Marathi, there is Dasbodh, written 400 years ago by Ramdas Maharaj. That is a book in our lineage and on that book he was giving lectures when he was in Bombay, for one and a half months or two months of the year. The sermons were everyday in the evening, from quarter to seven to quarter to eight. And then, the bhajans followed, which we did at night. After bhajans, people returned home. So, for about one and a half months, two months he was staying in Bombay. He was also spending the same amount of time in Sholapur. The same knowledge was given everywhere. He was speaking in a very simple Marathi language. His motto was, "High, complicated words are not required, as it is beyond the reach of the human mind." So, he was giving very simple examples of daily life so that one can understand very easily.

One book was Dasbodh, another was Yoga Vashista, another was Saachara, written by Shankaracharya, and Ecknath Bhagavad (Gita), which describes the whole life of Krishna and what he taught to his disciples. That was written by Ecknath Swami, who was a great realised person. 'Ecknath' means 'Lord is one only'. Whose master is one, is Ecknath. He has written many historic stories of Krishna , there are many, and so many fights also. Siddharameshwar Maharaj told us to only try and understand the main meaning of that fighting. What is that fighting? What is the meaning of fighting? What is karma? What are reactions? All these things are in the Bhagavad Gita. Four books he used to teach us. Beginning, was knowledge from Ramdas Swami's book. Then, for renunciation, Yoga Vashista.. Rama was in a state of humiliation and then his master, Vashista gave him knowledge, and how he became Lord Rama. Otherwise, he was a son of a king. Then, finally he took Shankaracharya. After understanding and renouncing, it describes how a person stays in his life. He has so nicely given Shankaracharya (Saachara) - how he lives, how he takes his life and how he understands what Reality is, what final Reality is, what thoughtless Reality is. All these topics are covered.

He first gave the knowledge. He told us that people say that renunciation should come first, but he didn't agree with them. But, first by knowledge, if you renounce, then you can understand. Otherwise, if you renounce without knowledge, then things may change at any moment. Mind may change at any moment, no? For example: a nice khana (meal) is prepared, or biryani rice is prepared. Sweet smell is coming and everybody wants to eat. If you say, "Don't eat." He'll say, "Why, this is mine?" Then he asks, "Why are you telling me not to eat?" You then say, "I'm sorry but there is poison in it." As he has got the knowledge of poison, he renounces without delay. So, if knowledge is there first, renunciation automatically must come. Will you still like to eat it? Nobody likes it. So, if knowledge comes, then you don't like it. Mind may go a thousand times there. A young chap goes near the candle, he wants to hold it. Mother, father what do they say? "Don't hold it!" They refrain him for what reason? He should not be burnt, nothing else. Same way, if you understand the knowledge, then you can renounce very easily, no? It's an illusion, everything is zero. If that understanding comes in the mind, then how much time does it take to renounce? Just when that man only said, "Poison is there", then nobody will eat, no? Once you understand that khana is poisonous, you never think of eating, even though you may be hungry. Stay in that way. After understanding, doubt doesn't remain anywhere and then you can renounce very easily.

Many people dressed up as saints and went out, for four months, six months, eight months - as they liked. After some time Siddharameshwar told them, "Now take off these saffron clothes and be a simple man as you were beforehand." All these things, nobody will say that. Many masters are there, but they never say, "Take out your clothes." He said, "Be a simple person. Understanding has come to you, right over you now. Why should this show be there?" So if you understand that way, then you can easily throw off the clothes also. People want saffron clothes so then they can say, "Oh, they bow down at my feet at once!" Ego remains always in the mind. So, he said, "Renounce the renunciation now." And then he gave that final understanding of Reality. So, he was the greatest of the greatest of that time. An unknown saint of that time, what to do? He never wanted fame, never wanted to say anything in public. Those who were coming to him, he was giving his lectures. Twelve years he gave the lectures, his full understanding. And then, what did he tell us? He said, "I never asked anything from you. Today I say, you have realised, you have understood, now don't forget my master's bhajans". And that was his greatness, I tell you! Now I feel this. At that time I may not be feeling, I don't know, I can't say anything. One who is now realised, what is the meaning of that, once you have understood this Reality? But that ego is always there, it comes in the way and takes you to the wrong path. So, forget that ego! Forget it, there's no harm.

Q: After you met your master, how did you live your everyday life?

RM: A very simple life I was living. I was taking education at a school at that time. I was just twelve years old. My mind was not there. Though I went up to matriculation, and then failed there, and finally I said I would no longer learn any more required knowledge. My mother was very kind to me, so she never forced me, insisted on me. My father died when I was at the age of six, so there is no question of father coming there. But mother can force me to get married and all those things, but she never forced me. All this is by his grace (looking at his master's picture).

Illusion always fights with the realised persons. In our language, they say 'maya'. 'Maya' is a Sanskrit word - 'ma' means 'not', and 'ya' means 'which'. 'Which is not' is an illusion, or 'maya'. So, that illusion always fights. One should be stubborn in his life - " Let come what may, but I will never submit to you." In this way, after twelve years my master left his body in 1936 at the age of 48, giving all the understanding, complete thorough understanding - what realisation is, what final realisation is, what Reality is, what thoughtless Reality is. All these things, he so nicely explained, so one can easily achieve It. It is his grace, what I speak. Once, one person asked the question here, "You're also an illusion or not?" As long as there is 'I', there is illusion. What question does not remain to ask? When 'I' goes off, or 'ego' goes off, how can illusion stay? Where there is light, darkness can never remain. So, one should listen to the master with full faith in him, that's enough. You can ask your doubts, there's no harm, but what he says, you should take to heart. Everything is possible, there's nothing to worry about. Then man is He, and not a man. In 1936, when he passed away, I was living my simple life only, and I never wanted to be a master, (laughs) because why even want those things, require fame and this - "I'm a master and he's a disciple", all these things. I was not teaching anybody until 1983, but by his order or grace, I had to be a master, and at the moment I teach you (laughs). I started in 1983. Why? Because my master's granddaughter-in-law wanted a mantra. She said to me, "I want a mantra from you." If I didn't give her a mantra, then I'd be faithless to Siddharameshwar Maharaj.

Q: So this is how you started teaching?

R. M.: Yes, yes, I started with that only. One should not be faithless to him. Because he has given such a right thing. Nobody can give that in the world, I tell you. It was his courage, so much strength in it when he was speaking, so strongly he was stating that one can understand, why not? Mind should be changed, nothing else. 'Conquered me' means - he changed my mind, nothing else. Conquered means that he didn't do anything, no miracle, but still he said, "You can see many Gods, why to worry." He had to say that much. At that time I was not ready, no? I did not know anything. I did not even know 'Brahma' (God) or 'maya' - the illusion. 'Brahma' or illusion, I never knew anything. 'God' was an idol only, that was my idea. Don't worry for that. If a blank paper is there you can write very fast on it. If it is paper that is written on, then you can't write, no? You have to make many scratches over it. So, there was nothing for him to say. He gave me, within 12 years he taught in such a nice way.

Ramdas Maharaj has written a whole chapter on 'worship'. His disciples asked him, "What is the necessity of worshipping now? What you have understood is that nirguna - God is there. Then why to go for sadguna (worship)?" Then he said that, "You do everything or not already? You eat, you sleep, you go to the toilet. If anybody comes, you say, "Come in. It is mine, it is yours." In this way the understanding remains. As long as the body is there, understanding remains or not? Then why do you want to forget him, the master?" In that lineage, there were always bhajans and he was also doing bhajans. He did it up to his last moment, you follow? Then, what happens? Nothing remains for you. So you don't want anything from him. He never wanted anything from his master, but still why did he worshipped him? To do service, but also to honour him. Nothing else. Service - a brave man can do that. He wanted nothing from him. So he taught and we accepted, because it was a true thing. And that's the only thing which one can do after understanding. What to do then? Tell me! You are He. Now, what to do? Still you are doing everything, no? So why to leave the bhajans? That is ego - "Now I am a realised person, why should I worship? No need." Still he said to us, "Have some faith in the master or faith in your Self. Faith should be for One only. So have faith in your Self." But still, sometimes that takes you to the wrong path, that ego comes in. So he always told us, "Do what I have told you, don't do what I am doing." He was always saying this. I may do anything, according to the body. For example, he had diabetes, so he could not eat sugar. So does this mean that his disciples should also not eat sugar? That's nonsense, no? So he said, "Everything that I do, don't do it, but what I say, do it. Preserve that in your mind, that power which I have given to you. Preserve that nicely, so that you can do anything and everything in the world." Because the world is 'not' (or doesn't exist), so what is there to do in the 'not' and what is there not to do in the 'not', tell me?

Many disciples may come today, may not come tomorrow, why should He worry? Water never worries for anybody. If you are thirsty, then you go to the river, no? The river provides water and your thirst is completed. So I had to start like this. His granddaughter-in-law asked me. Because, I never wanted to be a master, I tell you. It was his wish now, because everybody is He. After leaving the body you are everywhere. So I said to her, "After two hours I will give you the mantra, but let me first think it over." I had to think and ponder over it and then I started. And today sixteen years have passed now, in 1983 I started. Don't worry! If the child cries for milk mother says, "Wait." She makes the milk hot and then makes cold and then gives it, no? It should be digestible. So master is always just like a protector. He protects you everywhere. Whatever you say is true. And he has got that power to make that truth. Whatever you say - no harm. Suppose somebody's child says something unclear, and then its mother or father says it clearer: "He wanted to say this, he wanted to say that." So He is a protector. One should have the greatest faith, faith beyond your life for the master! Then, it is very easy. What harms you? Where is the knowledge going away to? Yourself is He! In this way, I was lucky enough to get that real master. So I never saw anybody else. There where many others - Ramana Maharshi was there, Rajneesh was there. Many, many people were there, but I never wanted to go to them. What need? When your belly is full you don't need to go to a restaurant, no? What is the meaning? If somebody offers you nice biscuits, you say "Oh, I am sorry, I'm full, I can't eat it." Brahmins are known for their ladoos (sweats). So many Brahmins were called together, and they were eating ladoos and then after eating, rice was served. You know, this is an Indian custom. One of them said, "If I would have place still for rice I would have taken more ladoos instead. I would have not left any ladoos (laughs)." There is no place for it.

So, he has given so much knowledge, to not go anywhere. "Everywhere you are, everywhere you are He." And that understanding he brought to me and that is his grace, that he gave me that understanding. And I can dare say today to anybody: "You are He, now go! Don't worry." Now it is upon you how to accept it! If you accept it fully, then, what remains? You are also one of the saints, why not? Do anything, no harm, but still have the courage to understand. Tell your mind, "Go away, I don't want you, because you always take the objection." In the race, objection is taken by the person who finishes second, no? Sometimes it is overruled and sometimes they have to submit also. So don't take any objection in the mind. Be frank enough and say to yourself that,"I am He always". So I always say, "If you are in heaven or hell, you are still He. Don't worry about it." Body affairs don't mean anything, why to worry about it? Have complete understanding, and that the master gives you, nothing else. Nobody can give you that understanding. He gives this understanding in that way. So I dare say now, "If you want to kill, kill somebody. Don't worry if you go to the gallows. Body is going to the gallows, I never go to the gallows." So I go to the extreme sometimes when I tell you. I like to use extreme examples. No need to kill anybody. Whom to kill? When everybody is He - what to kill? But still, mind should be so strong enough - don't worry for anything. Because you are doing nothing, you are doing everything in a dream! What you have done in the dream is not true, take it for granted. One should have that much understanding and that much power to accept it.

Q: In Reality, there are no objects, no experience, no experiencing and no experiencer, like you told us before.

RM : Yes, there is no experience.

Q : If you are Reality then how can you understand, because understanding requires an object?

RM: Yes, okay.

Q: Do you see what I mean?

RM: Yes, I understood. Forget everybody, then you are He or not?

Q: So you have to forget everything?

RM: Yes. Forget all! And then you are He. As you don't forget, all these things - mind, body, human soul, the power which is in you - you have to forget that also, and go beyond this. Leave everything, and then? You are He. He's One only. Who will experience? When there is a Oneness, then no question of experience comes up. He is there, no? Forget everything and you are always there. So I give the example - You go into a room to find out if someone is there. There is nobody. Everybody has gone. But He (Reality) was there without telling. So, without saying anything, you are He. There's no need to say, "I was there."

There's another example I often use - ten men swim across a river. When they arrive on the other bank, one of them decides to count to see if all ten have arrived safely. He only counts nine. So, another tries and he also counts only nine. They all try and they all arrive at nine. So they begin to cry because one has not made it across. Then someone watching them comes over and tells one of them to recount. When he arrives at nine, he slaps him and says, "Tenth is found!" He got the slap and he said, "Oh, I understood, tenth is here." Each one forgot to count himself. In the same way, you remain your Self. Whom to experience now, who will experience Him? There is no duality at all. Duality always brings trouble. Or when the knowledge comes, triad, the number three comes in the knowledge. If you know anything, then triad remains or not? You are the observer, you are observing something, and the observing process, all three remain. Shankaracharya says, "If the triad doesn't remain then you are He. Whom to experience?" How can you experience your Self? Even to see your face, you have to use a looking glass. You can't see your face without a looking glass. You can see your whole body, but you can't see your face. So, when you are He, what is there to experience? The one who says, "I experienced", he has not experienced, I tell you!

The second day of the moon comes. It's just a thin line only. So somebody says, "See there, there's some cloud and there is some tree you see, and nearby there is some small thin line (the moon)." If you don't experience, then you are lost. And if you understand, one who has understood, he gives you that understanding. One who has seen that, only he can give you the same understanding. "The moon is there, like very small thin line." But what do people do? They go to see these trees, branches of the trees or even the cloud and say, "Oh, we have understood." They have not seen That! One who has seen, he will never ask for anything. Because he's He, he understands then. If nobody is there, then are you there or not? So you are always proving yourself by negation. You can't say, "I am this." Say, "I am not this!" Somebody knocks on the door and you say, "Come in, there is nobody." But you are there, without telling. So, Reality is like that. No experience is required. But if you go towards experience, then you make the triad again. But if nobody is there, then you are there, no? So I always say, "Close your eyes and then you are there. What to experience for that? You will remain always there. Nobody is there - no you, no self, no knowledge, no ignorance and no knowing also." Then the understanding automatically comes, there's nothing to worry about. He teaches you in that way.

Suppose you put both your legs outside, so you are not in the room. You are outside. Otherwise,if you put one leg inside, then you are a trespasser. So if you do something to understand Him also, you forget Him. So, do everything but understand, "I don't exist." So, the one who is real never keeps the ego. He does everything, he does anything but still he says, "I don't exist." One who doesn't exist, then what remains for him? Knowing is wrong, it is not true, an illusion. You are not doing anything! Cinema screen doesn't do anything but shows everything, no? In the same way, you do nothing but you show everything. You show the whole world. So one who understands the screen, then he never says what is not true. If someone dies in the film which is showing on the screen, the ladies cry, at least in India they cry. They say,"Oh, he is gone!" and they cry. But one who understands that it is only a film, then does he cry? He says, "Oh, it was a picture only on the screen. Nothing has happened." In the same way, one should understand that nothing is happening. Everything is zero. Whatever happens in zero, is it true? In your dreams, you do many things. Can you say it's true when you awake? Awakening should come here and ignorance should go off. When awakening comes, then you forget everything that has happened in the dream. You say, "Dream was wrong." In the same way here also, say, "This dream is a wrong dream, nothing else." The next day, when you sleep, everything goes off, disappears. Where is the world? You don't even remain yourself. You don't even know your name. Then you dream, and in the dream you take another name. In the dream, you have another name. You are a poor chap, or you might even become a king there. So, not to worry about anything. So, one who says, "I have understood", he has not understood, I can say that! There is nothing to understand. Whom to understand? If you say, "I know my Self", then what is the meaning of it, tell me. One knows automatically the Self. You take the body as Self so you are mistaken, and that is due to ignorance. The power which works in you is there or not? When that power is disconnected, where does the power go? Power remains as nothing, it becomes null and void. That knowledge then goes off.

When you die what happens? You forget everything. Then who takes the birth? If the last wish of a dying man is, "I must have a body" then that makes him take birth again. Nobody puts you in birth and nobody makes you die, I tell you always. When the disconnection comes, then automatically one dies, what to do? He may be 10 years old, 20 years old or even 100 years old. When he dies, all knowledge goes off and the five elements return to zero. The five elements are zero. Knowledge becomes zero. What remains? The wish which you had of the body, that makes you take the birth. So, rebirth is always there. If you understand that I am not this (pointing to his body), I am something else other than this, then you will never think that "I must have a body." There is always a problem with the body, no? Whoever he may be - a very strong man, but still he has some problems in life. So birth is a problem and death is also a problem. In between, all problems come and go. You carry on with the problems only. Happiness is this much (shows a very little space between his thumb and index finger) and trouble is this much (shows large span with his arms). You go on working for 30 days, and then you get the salary, no? (Laughter) You have to work. Nobody gives you your salary in advance. You have to toil! So you have to toil here also. To be rich is not easy. You have to do and make many things. And often, there are many wrong things you have to do. Then you may become rich. One hundred people become poor and you become rich. What is there? Money is not coming only to you, it is always in circulation. Forget the idea that,"I am rich or I am poor." It's nothing! If you understand the Reality, then you are neither poor nor rich. All are equal. Then nothing remains. That is his teaching, follow me (giggles).

Q: So that discrimination power between what is real and what is not real, through the reflection of the Truth, it becomes stronger and stronger?

RM: Yes, exactly.

Q: So it's a process?

RM: Yes, it's a process, but one can also do it in one moment. Mind is a process. If the mind doesn't agree, then you have to make it a process. But if the mind agrees, then? Take H2O, for example. If you don't understand this, then you do many, many things to try to understand. "How can two parts of hydrogen and one part of oxygen be water?", you say. You first need to know many things, then you can say why it is so. In the same way, a process is required to strengthen your mind, nothing else. If the mind turns to that side, then everything is lost, but don't worry. You are not the loser, you can prove anything you like. You have got that power. Understand that, "If I do something then it's a trouble for me, nothing else." So there is a saying - "An uneasy life lies ahead for the one that wears the crown." Most people feel that the king is very happy. He knows what happiness is because he has got everything. But he has to worry for everybody. In the night, if something happens, all the people phone to the king, no? "This has happened, so what should we do now? Give your orders!"

All this, even the greatness of the world is nothing but a zero. You feel, "I am so great, I am the greatest of the greatest!" No, the greatest is He! He is in everybody and does everything. So why to worry? If you want to do anything, do it! One should not worry about it. If you worry then you are lost. Problems come to you also, no? Somebody kills somebody, and if you say, "Oh, I have seen him commit the murder", then, you have to go to the court again and again to give your witness. If one says, "I don't know what has happened?", what has he to do? Nothing! Because nothing has happened, what to do? Killer is He and the one who is killed is also He. Who kills whom? In that way, who am I to be a witness also? Witness is nothing but losing your Self. Don't be a witness. Don't do anything and you are He always. But you always want to do something, so what to do? Mind always wants to do something. The mind is the greatest 'mischief monger', he always makes mischief. Many people come to me, they tell me all their worldly problems, and I laugh in my mind. (Laughter) What to do? It is all due to the mind's mischief.

Q: They probably still feel that they can get something from the illusion.

RM: They wish, but if I tell them that nothing is there, then? Then, they make a face like this (makes a sad face). What to do? "Master says it's nothing, everything is nothing". What to do? But one who has got some understanding and who wants the Reality, he accepts. So one should try to accept that, nothing else.

Mind should be taken to that side (Reality). Turn your mind, nothing else. One should turn the mind. Mind is the greatest thing, it makes all the differences. Good man, bad man, worst man - mind makes the difference. People say, "From day by day, it's going from bad to worse". Nothing is the 'worst'. According to your mind it happens, no? In our time, we were getting twelve kilos of rice for 4 rupees. Now, one kilo is between 52 and 60 rupees! Time changes, so why to worry? The world is going ahead and ahead. So, Siddharameshwar Maharaj has written in 1926 that, "The world is galloping towards hell." One finally goes where? One dies and everything ends. Nothing remains for him. So you are always free.

There were freedom fighters fighting for the independence of India. Once Siddharameshwar Maharaj said, "Don't think that after gaining independence from the British that it will rain gold! Rain of water is sure to come. After independence, you will have to toil more." For example, if you are under the protection of your father, then do you have to worry more? No. He looks after everything. But when you become independent, then you have to worry about everything - "What to do, how to do it, how to earn money?" All these questions come in the mind. The mind is like this. So he said, "Okay, I may be independent, but how much trouble is there now, you don't see that. Forget the independence! Reality is always there and everything that is happening is okay. Nothing is bad and nothing is good, take this in the mind." If anything goes against your wish, say " It is for my good, because I am the creator. I have created this!" That should be the understanding. Why to worry about anything? If death comes to the body, then say, "It's okay, I am prepared to die, because I am not that." Who dies? Nobody dies. Death has no value. Everything is zero and becomes zero. What is death, tell me? What is here (pointing to a cupboard)? Light a fire in it and then it becomes zero. It's the same for everything. What is there? Let everything be there and understand that it is not true.

Q: So in a sense, should we stop creating things?

RM: Don't create anything! Create your Self (laughs). Find out Reality, create your Reality more and more. Then, automatically you will understand that it's nothing, just a play! Suppose a small boy is playing cards with you. He puts an eight down, but he says, "King!". "I am the winner", he then says. Your love is there. You say, "Yes, yes, you win". Same thing, nothing else. So everybody says, "I am the winner"! "Yes, yes, you are the winner, I am defeated." Take it for granted because I don't exist. Who is defeated? When I don't exist, then who is defeated? Nobody is defeated. You take it as true and then defeat comes to you. So forget everything and you are He without doing anything now. Eyes bring everything, no? Close your eyes then you are He. How much time does it take? But you don't accept that, so what to do? When you close your eyes, you are there or not? You without you, Self without self is there. Why to worry? If everything becomes zero, you are not going to be zero. Screen remains always the same. Many pictures come and go. When the end comes, then all the people go. You pay money, sit for three hours and still you have to go home without getting anything (giggles). So this is a fancy of the mind. Mind fancies always. What fancy will come to him, one cannot say. Understanding should come, nothing else. Siddharameshwar Maharaj gave that understanding, so, I am still living at 87, take it for granted (giggles). Otherwise I would have died and gone at any time, huh? My body was always weak. Now I am stronger, I tell you! (giggles) When I was at school I have taken permission, "I won't go to the gymnasium and play sports!" I couldn't do it, no? Weak body was there, what to do? Permission was taken from the headmaster. "I will sit and look at others doing their work."

Q: Maharaj, what is awakening?

RM: Awakening is nothing but understanding - a complete thorough understanding. A clear cut understanding of a thing is awakening.

Q: And it's a mental understanding?

RM: First, mental is required and then practical is required. Talent is the greatest thing, intellectual talent. Without the intellect, one cannot understand. So, you have to understand with the full intellect and then, that knowledge, or that understanding should submerge, because knowledge is a thought. A good thought or a bad thought, both are thoughts. So, knowledge is a golden thorn, and ignorance is an ordinary thorn. And it's a bondage, both are bondage. Suppose your hands have been put in cuffs, maybe they're iron or maybe golden, but it's still bondage. So, both are thorns. One should understand and then throw them away. It is very difficult to throw out the knowledge, because ego remains up to knowledge. Knowledge is ego, nothing else. To erase that knowledge, one should say, "I know nothing." As Socrates said, "I know that I don't know." In this way I understood that even after understanding, one should always think of his mind, thoughts, knowledge and ego. It could come in any time, any moment, you can't say. One should always be on the alert, because ego is such a thing, it can erupt at any moment.

Q: This discrimination, between real and unreal, does it just come to the person or do you have to achieve it?

RM: One has to achieve it. Mind is just like a knife - it should be sharpened at every moment. If the master is there, he sharpens your mind. When he's not there, you have to sharpen your own mind. Because the illusion is such, one can be thrown off from any place. Illusion wants that the person be under 'my' control. He opposes illusion, so the illusion doesn't like him and tries in any way to take him down, or attract him in anyway. So, it is said, "You have to walk on a sword. Any little mistake, and you will get cut." In this way, one should go, one can go. Reality is not to be achieved, it is there. The farmer works, everything comes up, finally the corn comes, but still he has to work and harvest it. In the same way here also. After receiving or understanding the final Reality, one should be on his guard. After a thorough understanding, then nothing is required.

Q: So, is that the advice you give to your disciples?

RM: I teach them that when doubts come, I have to solve their doubts.

Q: You have to solve them?

RM: I must. Always, because I give sermons every Sunday in Bombay. For the majority, their doubts are automatically cleared in the next sermon. One who has got more doubts, he can come and ask, and I give them my full co-operation. I don't believe in these big, big fuss's - that one should take an appointment, and one should do this. It's all nonsense. Why? When you say it is all an illusion, why do you make the illusion more in you? (laughs) Ego only wants that, no? "I am a great saint and they should ask me..." and all these things, it's all nothing! One should put his own self at the feet, which means, in the teaching of the master. If one can do that, then I can take him up to the door of the Reality, and after that, he has to experience. There, I am not there. Because your master and the experience, both are one. There is no duality, there is no duality. Is there anything more?

Q: I have a few more questions. One is, can the individual all of a sudden choose to wake up, or does the awakening happen only when the time is right?

RM: What the master teaches, if you have got full faith in it, why then can one not learn? It's not so that it will take time, or suddenly it will come. I don't believe in that. You must have the faith.

Q: And if you don't have that faith?

RM: Then it's useless. Faith is required up to understanding only. Afterwards, 'no faith' is also required. Suppose you have got 60 lakhs (6 million) francs in the bank, and I say, "Keep faith." Is there any meaning in it? You say, "No, I know I have got it." Once you understand, when a clear cut understanding comes, then even faith is not required. There are many steps here. Step by step you have to go up. 'Suddenly', I don't believe in 'suddenly'. Many people say this and many saints even say it. 'Suddenly', I don't believe. When you've got 60 lakhs in the bank, why talk of 'suddenly'? You know! If you've forgotten it's my duty to make you understand.

Q: Would you say that the faith comes when there is surrender?

RM: Ego should be surrendered.

Q: So as long as there is someone who thinks he is other than That, then it cannot work?

RM: Yes. The small baby has so much faith in the mother, so the mother does everything for him. Before he cries, she gives milk, and everything. In the same way, the master is also like that. If you've got faith, then nothing is impossible. Suppose a women falls with a child. When she gets up, she first sees that the child is not hurt. In the same way, the master also knows. When one has got the faith, He knows, so all his misunderstandings and doubts are cleared by Him. Otherwise, how can 'suddenly' or 'abruptly' come up? How can it come up? You have to know your Self only. You only represent or misrepresent your Self. If that understanding doesn't come then the ego will remain.

Q: So, once you know or once you've tasted, then how can any doubts arise. Is that what you're saying?

RM: Yes, you become doubtless, no? Once you know, "I am not this", then? My master told me, "After understanding, if you want to stay, stay. Stay in the jail if you like, but take it in your mind that "I am not a victim"". One cannot not afford to leave the illusory fast, so live there, but understand that much, "I'm not the victim." So, stay in the jail but take it for granted, or in the mind, that "I am not a victim." Ego is such - in very many ways he remains, in different shapes, in different ways, he remains. So, one should really be aware, always of understanding, and then, once you are complete, then there's nothing to worry about. What you see is illusion. If you understand 'myself' is illusion, then where does everything remain? People don't understand. Illusion is nothing, how can it block you? How can nothing block you?

Q: For you it's an illusion, but for most people it's so real.

RM: When the master teaches you, you can get the experience. Experience brings everything. The boy is an ignorant boy, then he goes to school. Finally, he graduates from the college as a doctor, or a barrister, or an engineer. He gets the knowledge. In the same way here, also. Nothing is impossible in the world, bas. But everything has become impossible in the world, because people are stealing for this. You are He, so what is impossible? You don't understand, you don't take it to heart. That is the impossibility.

Many people come and ask me, "Where's the master, and what to do?" Their master is not living at the moment and still they ask the question, "What can we do?" Somebody said to me, "I have got three master's - Nisargadatta Master, Siddharameshwar Master and yourself also." This is a wrong thing of the mind. Only one sword can stay in one sheath. Two cannot stay. You must leave either that master and forget him. That is the main point, nothing else. So I was loving Lord Krishna like anything, but still I left him because I saw Siddharameshwar Maharaj. So I always say, "I saw him and he conquered me." That is the main point in it. One should have great love for the master and great devotion also. What he says is correct, if you understand that. At that time, he taught meditation. He also told us, "You can see many Gods also. No harm - one can see, but there's no need for all this nonsense, this is also a trial." I was very young and so he has to tell me that. I never minded that thing also. Why should I mind? What he says is correct, no? I can say now myself, that "I am He now." Very strongly I can say that "I am He". I don't exist myself. I don't exist as a master also, not anything. I am He. Master is also ego. To be a master is also ego. Forget that!

Q: Yesterday, you also mentioned the saying, "This is not me, this is not me". I find that this is also a beautiful way.

RM: Yes, exactly. "I am not", you have to say that. "I am" is very thorny. 'I' never exists. In a dream you become something, you become 'I', no? When you awake, you say, "Oh it was wrong." So this (waking state) is a very long dream. So, seeing the master is required, so that then after you, yourself have the understanding and will say, "Oh, this is all illusion, why to worry?" It is very easy and very hard also, both ways. If the mind accepts, then it is very easy. Thinking should be changed, nothing else! The track of the mind - the mind is derailed, like a train. Put it on the right track, and then it goes!

Q: Could you explain to us what the significance of the pilgrimage is for you?

R. M.: Significance means - Siddharameshwar Maharaj's last remains are kept there in Bagewadi. Then, what to do now? Bodily, he has left. So we go there and worship for sometime. He is everywhere, so there is nothing to worry about. Yourself is He. Still, there you have to make the duality to understand, to realise or cherish something. You follow me?

Q: So, it helps to make the understanding stronger?

RM.: Yes, yes, yes, understanding. It helps you more. When you go on the pigrimage, your thoughts all go away. Worldly thoughts also go away. All are the birds of the same feather there. So you worship there, you do many things, and that helps you. That's the meaning of the pilgrimage. And other things also. We also visited Chimmud, no? You can see how the pyre was built there - the man who made up his own pyre and then he slept over it and said, "When my breathing leaves me, light the fire." And still it stands today. It's about 18 feet high. It was built over a hundred years ago, a hundred years have passed away. So, your mind takes you, drags you there. And you also forget all the worldly affairs. What to do? So this is the only thing, nothing else. After understanding, why does he go on a pilrimage? Where to go and where not to go? So he goes there. If you go to the cinema then all troubles come, no? Money is required, first.of all (laughter) Nothing is required to be with Him. That's the pilgrimage. So, we also visit my master's birthplace (Pathri), where he took the birth, and he achieved such Reality, which most people cannot understand.

Many saints also don't understand, I dare say now! Ramakrishna Parmahansa was there and some realised person met him. Ramakrishna told him that he was only worshipping Kali Kamata. A power, a Godess - her name was Kali. That person told Ramakrishna, " Take that photo and spit on it, then only can you realise." These are all worldly affairs. Worshipping is also a worldly affair, no?. All of these things, forget them, and then you can understand your Self, "Who am I?". Otherwise you can't understand. So, my master also said, "Forget everybody." Idols also. When you go to church, Christ's body is not there, only the emblem is there, no? If you worship the emblem only, then you will become only the emblem. You won't be He. But if you worship the Reality, then you become the Reality. Christ said, "I am God", and then his own disciples killed him. At that time people didn't have a very high intellectual capacity. Their caliber was very poor and so they could not accept what Christ said.. So they killed him. "How can he be God?" Understanding should come. So, Christ taught with understanding. He said at the end, "Oh my Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing. They kill my body, but they can not kill me." That's the meaning in it. In the same way, if anybody comes to you and says, "I'm going to kill you", you say, "Kill me! It is very good for me not to remain in the body because I am He". (giggles) As I have taken the birth I must remain in the body for a certain time.

So, never worry. Siddharameshwar Maharaj was the right person, he has given this understanding. So what to do now? So we do these pilgrimages, we go there and pray. What we pray here, we pray there as well. We are doing nothing more. It's just a different way - we all go there at the same time. Then your mind can be dragged to that side (Reality), nothing else. So, for that purpose all these things are required.

The saint Tukaram, after he had understood the Reality, met together with some people who were going to Pandrapur, which is a pilgrimage place for Lord Krishna. One of them said to him, "Come on, Tukaram Maharaj, you have to come with us to Pandrapur." Then he said, "My Pandrapur is here now, not there". In this way, the understanding comes and after there is nothing to do. No need. But what should one do as long as the body is there or many people are there? Many people cannot understand this. It is very difficult for them to understand. It is very easy, but people don't want things easy. They want the hard things. For example, you ask someone, "Where is your left ear?" He says, "Oh, it's here". (Maharaj reaches with his right arm over his head to his left ear). But if they do it this way, then? (Maharaj reaches with his left hand up to his left ear). It's called 'Dravidian Pranayam' (makes the first gesture, reaching over the head). Wrong things! Do it the easier way and say, "It is here!" In the same way, say "He is always here!" So Vitthoba, or Lord Krishna, or Siddharameshwar Maharaj, all are here. Know that everybody is He. When that understanding comes, then there is no need to do anything. But still, the realised person does it for the other people, to give them some satisfaction and understanding so that one day they too can understand, why not? All that is the meaning of the pilgrimage, nothing else. Otherwise, the pilgrimage has no meaning. He is everywhere, no? But his last bodily remains are kept there, so we go there and pray. Nothing else. But he has said, "Nothing is required." Okay, but still people cannot understand, so in order to give them some understanding, he goes with them and does everything. Nothing to worry. He does everything, no? Our master has told us, "You have to sing bhajans." I have sung four bhajans up to now. For the past 75 years, since I was twelve years old, I am doing that, what to do? And in that I relish! Nothing remains and no trouble comes to me. If I have a few hours to live - I'll do it! At night, any time - no harm. No bondage of time. If you feel trouble, a fever is coming, then sleep. But don't forget him. Get up afterwards when you feel better and sing that bhajan, and then afterwards sleep - everything will go off, nothing to worry.(giggles). That is his power. Your power means his power, nothing else. Understanding should come, nothing else. You do nothing for him, you do for your Self. Your Self is He. That's the main point in it, nothing else. Be He and do everything. You do everything already, so why not worship Him?

When we talk, we say, "Mine, yours, his, hers". After understanding also one has to say: "This is my share, this is your share". You have to say, no? So why should worshipping be forgotten? That is also ego, to say, "Now I have understood, so why should I worship anybody?" Ego comes back again. So, to take out the ego and to crush the ego, you have to do it and you can do it! What happens? You go to toilet, you eat, you drink, you sleep, you do everything. Why to worry? Nothing is there. When you worship, your mind becomes stronger and stronger and moves over to that side (Reality). Then finally you become He. Today you are He, but you don't know it. Your mind makes some objections. Mind doesn't allow you to go to the Reality, because he knows that his death is there. So, he makes some objections, some points and drags you back, nothing else. So one should overcome the mind, nothing else. Forget your mind and make His mind your mind, the master's mind your mind. Then you can be He in a fraction of a second, why not? If acceptance comes, then what remains? But you don't accept it because your love for the illusion doesn't go. The love for the illusion is so strong, so we take people on the pilgrimage and get them do this and do that, and then they come round.

For example, if a boy doesn't do his homework, then? Sometimes you have to beat him, and sometimes you have to say to him, "We won't give you your lunch or dinner unless you do your homework". When he doesn't get lunch or dinner he says, "Oh, I have to do it!". In the same way here also, we have to do something. Nothing is required, only if you understand that. But still, what the master says, do it, so that the ego never comes in. If you keep the door open, a thief must come in, no? But if you lock it, then nobody can come in. So when you sleep, you have to lock everything before you sleep. The thief sees that nothing is kept open so he can not come in. Thief is ego. Otherwise, ego is such a nonsense thing. Even after realising, sometimes it comes in the mind. As long as the body is there, mind will be there. When it troubles you, stop him and crush him.. So, that which troubles you, forget that always. Crush it within a fraction of a second. Don't have any mercy for it. One should forget himself. Forget himself means the wrong self. Then Reality opens and is there always. If you go out of this building then you are outside, and when you are in, everything comes upon you, what to do? Anyone can say, "You have trespassed". But when you are out, who can say that you have trespassed? "No, I have not trespassed ", he says. So he is always free. The mind should be kept free always. Keep your mind so strong, so that nothing can come in it. When that understanding comes then you are He, and then there is nothing to worry about. That is the main purpose of the pilgrimage. People can enjoy and at the same time understand, that's the main point. Enjoying and understanding come more and more together. That is good, no? (laughs). Any more questions?

Q: Yes, one more. How do you see the world?

RM: (Laughs). How do you see a ghost? There's nothing there, so what is there to say? As long as the body is there, he acts, no doubt. He calls his mother 'mother', and his wife 'wife', but still he knows. If somebody asks him, "What is your name?", he gives his name, but he knows, "I am not this." That clear cut understanding is required. Complete understanding is called 'That'. Be in 'That'. Yesterday, I said, "Be like a lotus leaf. You are produced in water, you live in water, but you are not touched by water." So stay in that way, nothing else. Nothing needs to be demolished. Why demolish anything? What are they? Why are they there, troubling you? In fact, they don't trouble you. You go in and get more troubles. This chair never says, "I am yours." You say, "It is my chair." So, who is at fault? Not the chair, but yourself. The chair says nothing. So, in that way you can see the world. He can stay in the world. He stays like a child, without any interest. So, Shankaracharya has given very nice words for this - " He stays in thoughtless Reality and in the thought He remains, but He knows he is a thought." In short, he plays with the illusion.

For example, if you play with a serpent, first take out his poisonous tooth and then play. Poisonous tooth is the only troubling point, no? So, it is all illusion and not true, and if you understand that it's all nothing, then you can play in it! What harms you? There is nothing! What will harm you? So, be just like a lotus leaf, always live in the life. A realised person does not fear death, he does not care for anything more, and he does not want anything. When he does not want anything, people bring things and put them before him, He says "No, I don't want". They insist and say, "No, you must take it!". Suppose you come home, and you say to your mother or wife, "I don't want to eat anything." They will ask, "What happened, why are you not eating?" They will ask you many questions. But suppose, instead you say, "Is my khana (meal) ready or not!?" They will respond,"Wait awhile, it will be ready soon". She responds very politely but inwardly she thinks, "It will be ready soon, and if you want it, you can have some, and if you don't want it then...." So, in the world, one should not expect anything. You must first know your Self in your heart. Otherwise, you will be a slave of the illusion. Want nothing, understand that, because there is nothing, it's not true!

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Other Questioner : Maharaj, if it's all a dream, an illusion, then I am a dream figure in this illusion, is that correct ? If I am part of the dream do I have any control over what happens in the dream ?

RM: If you do not dream, then, how can a dream come to you? If you go to sleep, and if you take the dream as true then you do everything in the dream. Same way here also, if you take this as a dream, why to worry about it? You worry always for the dream. The dream should be like this or this way, it should go that way. The river does not worry where it gets to, it just flows. In the same way, after understanding, stays like this, never worrying. Whatever happens is okay. If bad things happen against him, he says, " It's okay, because it is my wish". It is your dream, no? You have taken birth in the dream, so you are bound in the dream. In a dream there is no law, for example, a plane can land in your bedroom. You can also do everything, so your power is so strong. A plane automatically lands in the room, and you experience this.

For example, here (waking state) if you want money, you first have to deposit it in the bank. But in a dream, if you want money, you can get the money immediately. You have to wait nine months here for a child, but in the dream, in the spur of the moment you can have a child. No need to wait nine months. All you have to do is say, "I want a child", and the child is there. The power is so strong. As you have become a body, your power is so synchronised, so small, that you cannot do anything. Now, we have to awake your power, nothing else. What does the realised person do? He awakens your power, which is sleeping. He awakens you and when you are awake, then the world becomes as small part of a sesame seed. The whole world, which was such a big world, is nothing but a part of a sesame seed, it is nothing. When understanding comes, then nothing remains.

Q: Does the individual have discrimination power himself or does it come from the master?

RM: From the master. He teaches you because you do not know that one plus two is three. When you go to school, you understand. Now you can say that one plus two is three. An enlightened person says at once, "One plus two is three, I know !" So strongly, you say. Understanding should come. Master awakens your understanding. When you are sleeping, he gives you a force and he awakens you. If you are in a dream or if you are in trouble, somebody awakens you, "Get up! What happened? You are crying." You say, "No, no I did not know, I was not crying !" He was crying, but he did not know. Then he awakens and sees that nothing is there. All the time we are saying wrong things. Understanding should come in the mind. Mind should be awakened, nothing else. Mind is sleeping in ignorance, it takes everything for true and it acts in such a way that more ignorance comes to him.

In the same way, the master awakens you. He awakens your understanding and then you yourself can say "I am He". Because everybody is He. Except Him there is nobody in the world, world is full of Him. Except Him, nothing is there. What you see is He. It does not exist, but due to the body you feel the hardness of that (taps the chair). So I give the example, you're dreaming and in the dream somebody gives you a slap on the face. You feel the slap and immediately you awaken and find only pillows. You then realise, "Oh, it was nothing ! Nobody slapped me." In the dream, somebody kills you, "Ahhh, I am killed!" Then you wake up. "All is wrong, nobody was there." Then your fear goes away. Awakening brings no fear. One should be fearless. Then he becomes realised. 'Fearless' means, mind becomes completely naked - nothing is true. Even God will say, "Oh, he's He now - I cannot do anything for him." That is the power that comes in the mind, nothing else. All is that power, doing is nothing. Power of Reality is so strong. That which is not, you see everything here, but nothing is happening in Him. That is Reality. For example, you watch a film for three hours on a cinema screen. Then the film ends and the screen becomes blank. The screen doesn't scream, doesn't laugh, doesn't sing, but during the film everything appears on it. In the same way, here we experience many things due to the mind becoming very objective. You see all the objects as true. At the moment the understanding comes, you see that everything is nothing, zero. That is the main point in it, nothing else. Mind should accept it. Once accepted by the mind then nothing remains, everything is zero and myself is Truth.